Curse

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Anet has had a good track record in the past of actually listening to the community, and several things that they had previously been rather firm about not wanting to change (Razah, Favor, Character Slots For Sale, HA back to 8v8, etc) in the past have been changed upon request from the community, so the precedence is there for them to listen in this case too.

Vinraith · Sep 26, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

You know the worst part? We're going to be having this same damn argument with regards to GW2 several years from now. Not exactly the same, of course, since they're supposedly not going to have heroes/henchmen in GW2, but the game is supposedly going to be balanced to allow soloing. You just know, though, that there are going to be a bunch of areas of the game, like with GW1 where a single player can't realistically make any headway. Anet seems to have this compulsive agenda to force strangers to play together, whether they want to or not. I don't understand it, but it's a significant problem with this game and liable to be a downright crippling problem in the next one. I hope they get over it. I sincerely hope they get over it.

Winterclaw · Sep 26, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Anet seems to have this compulsive agenda to force strangers to play together, whether they want to or not. I don't understand it, but it's a significant problem with this game and liable to be a downright crippling problem in the next one. I hope they get over it. I sincerely hope they get over it.

Well you see Anet never takes into account that if someone doesn't want to pug he won't. They also don't take into account not everyone is on the same page. For example one of my friends was doing NF a few weeks back and got a pug in the RoT to do a mission or quest... anyways none of them but my friend had LB titles or skills.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

It becomes pretty ridiculous when conisistantly more than 75% of the player base wants something that doesn't change the game all that much, but anet turns a blind eye... its frustrating to say the least.

Star Gazer · Sep 26, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

As I've mentioned several times, there are several plans for players to be able to capture a mini. Not all are regional -- the Halloween Contest is a global as I could make it, with local laws and all. Some are regional -- the European distribution, case in point. And that's ok! We're doing another distribution for North America -- watch for details next week. In the meantime, we do our best to serve all regions, but sometimes it doesn't work out. Cases of saying "We never get anything" or blaming the studio for distributor foul-ups are just not fair, so let's no go there again. For the 412th time.

wow......just wow. many concerned opinions about game play, and she responds to a freakin mini pet post? good god, where are their priorities??!?!

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

She will get back around to us... its just important to let her know how adament some of us are about it... and the ones who oppose can simply not use the added heros when it happens. Very simple.

Isileth · Sep 26, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Yeah there is no need for Anet bashing, they have been very good with helping the casual player before as well as listening to the community.

Hopefully someone will make a post here soon.

Havre Fras · Sep 26, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

wow......just wow. many concerned opinions about game play, and she responds to a freakin mini pet post? good god, where are their priorities??!?!

Priorities:

1) Minipets. If you talk shit about minipets saying that they're rubbish an worthless you will be told by ANet that they are awesome and are very meaningful.

2) Critisism. If you say anything remotly bad about the game you will be told that there is nothing wrong with it and that the game is working as intended (ala Blizzard) by ANet.

3) Opinions. If you say "blah blah Gwen sucks" you will be ignored whereas if you say "blah blah i luvz gewn lol" you will be praised by ANet with a "thanks, dear" or "yeah you're right, Gwen is awesome".

I just thought of these off the top of my head. I'm bored of this reputation grind just for a pair of glasses.

Minipets suck, Gwen bites, etc.

Loviatar · Sep 26, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by R!ghteous Ind!gnation

It becomes pretty ridiculous when conisistantly more than 75% of the player base wants something that doesn't change the game all that much, but anet turns a blind eye... its frustrating to say the least.

as Jeff Strain stated most of the player base will never visit a fansite.

as onother poster here stated after actually checking figures only 0.03 percent of GWO voted for this overpowered farmers crock

so it is not more than 75% of the player base

it is not even 75% of the GWO members

not even 7.5% of the GWO members

not even 0.75% of the GWO members

as for not changing the game that much why are you so frantic to get something that doesnt change that much..........unless it really does make a big change

Archaic · Sep 26, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

STOP putting these threads up. Whining at ANet because you can't cut it with henchmen. If your so willing to have 7 heros', put 3 on your party, and bring 4 people who are willing to change their bars.

ANet has said over and over and over and over that the design of the game does NOT accomidate this. You can say ANet doesn't listen. They do, they've denied your request, and you are still asking. So, please, make Gaile and the other people who read this forum's, job that much easier and stop making these threads.

the_jos · Sep 26, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Perhaps high end areas wasnt really the best term to use. Its really any area that takes a long time to complete, so the high end areas just spring to mind instantly. But this also includes dungeons and stuff like vanquishing.
So we arent talking about a few areas. We are talking about most of the game. (since HM is the same size + all the high end areas in NM)

In HM, you get level 20 henchies.
Same in EotN.
While you might need to tweak your team build to work around the disadvantages of the AI, the hench in HM, combined with heroes, are good enough for the job except in a very few places.

Which brings us to the next point:

Quote:

We are taking into account here that h/h can never be as powerful as a team of players. A bad pug can often be worse than h/h yes. But running h/h you can never have a decent team. You have a fairly "meh" team at best. It might be better than a good portion of pugs but you are still at a disadvantage to any good pugs and anyone that plays with a guild/alliance etc has a huge advantage over you.

I read your comments on the disadvantages of AI and you are right.
However, stating they are a fairly 'meh' team at best is also not true.
When building the right combination of H&H you can do a lot of things better then 'meh'.
However, you need to set your team and heroes in a way that the heroes provide extra benefit for the hench or take advantage of their skills.
The only thing that would work better is an organized pug and those are rare except in specific areas.

Quote:

I have a wife and 2 kids. If my wife needs me in the middle of DoA, you think the "elite" players in there would give a shit? No. OMG DUMBASS WARRIOR YOU SUX0RZ" is what they would say. 7 Heros gives me an opportunity to actually SEE some of these elite areas (because, after all, I did pay anet to give me access/free will to play these areas).

Let's talk DoA for a moment.
The most used team is probably still a variant of the balanced DoA build invented by Kaiz.
That's a build very difficult to play with heroes only.
So you probably need an other build.

Now to Deep.
Preferred build there was Steel Wall.
That might be playable with heroes indeed, however, would be hard.
For example, put 3 heroes on specific points to open a gate and get them through?
Don't have a lot of experience with Urgoz's, so can't judge that area.
You need to be /N yourself for the NT there, I think.
It seems to me those areas were build with human only players in mind.

FoW and perhaps UW should be possible with full hero team.
And most probably with H&H team (dunno if it's possible to take them with you when you start from NF or Factions).

In the end the content that you cannot access with H&H seems to be content that A-net made with human teams in mind.
Introducing heroes would not be the only thing they have to change there to make those areas playable with heroes.

Don't start about other obligations you might have as reason for 7 heroes.
To be harsh, that's your problem and you have to find a way to live with it and work around it. If that's not possible, tough luck.
My ex had panic attacks, meaning I could get a phonecall to pick her up several evenings a week. Meaning I could not play anything I could not finish within 15 minutes time.
Same for my work, I had to tell them that I could get a phonecall and had to leave almost at once, even in meetings.
The panic attacks lasted for several years, with periods between them that I could get some relief.

Now if you are in such a situation I feel very sorry for you, it's crap.
If it's not such a situation, you should be able to talk things over and arrange something that would enable you to play for a longer period of time.
Negotiation is part of a relationship.
I do understand that people see this different, but in the end it's a matter of priority.
Wife/kids > GW? Fully understand that, but don't complain that you don't have the time to do things with human players in GW because of that.
That's your trade-off, just like I put my (then) fiancee over my job, GW and a lot of social activities.

Star Gazer · Sep 26, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

archaic: oh, so you as a dev/beta/alpha tester disagree with user input? that speaks alot for your company, fine sir. If they are that closed minded about this, what else will they be closed minded against? oh wait! that was ever since prophecies. thank you for making my decision archaic. i will not be getting gw2 and giving my hard earned money to a dipshit company that thinks their own objectives are more than the players.

the jos: no, i do NOT think it is fair that I, as a causl player (which this game was ADVERTISED FOR) am unable to do the elite areas by myself. ANEt stated this game will be able to be played "15-20 minutes before dinner"...ok, so if its longer than that, tough luck? its a crock of shit if you ask me.

Woop Shotty · Sep 26, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Don't dare do it without giving heroes PvP equipment accessibility...

Isileth · Sep 26, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

@jos (sorry im not going to quote each bit and go into detail, ive done far to much posting already today so im going to keep it short(...er)

If Anet wants to say right people who cant play for X mins at a time shouldnt have access to this content. They will loose a lot of people.
Its tough luck if they loose a big portion of the playerbase right?

The fact that we have h/h already shows how they are willing to appeal to the casual player where a lot of MMORPGs dont. Im fairly sure they will know just how much the casual player nets them. Im also fairly sure its an ammount worth changing something like this ingame to show that they support the casual gamer. If they do they will deffinately have a lot of those casual players go over to GW2. Because they know they can trust Anet to ensure the game is open to everyone, not just the hardcore player.

@Lovitar
What you need to think is that most casual players wont visit a fansite. So a lot of people on a fansite will be more hardcore player. The fact that 75% of the people voted yes shows that its not just the casual player who would like it.

Also how is it overpowered?
And what does it have to do with farming? You go with heroes they get drops just like players would. So the player gets the same drops. Plus most casual players would never have the time to farm and play the game.

And it is a big change. This would allow so many people access to areas they have never been able to reach, would allow people to play the game how they want, in a way it was advertsides they could. Without being punished for that choice.

@Archaic

I replied to you in the other thread. So im just going to quote it in here as well for those not checking the other thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Ok people deffinately arent reading that other thread (or any of the previous posts in this one it seems )

Some people cant play for long periods of time, if they took the time to get 4 other players they would have to ditch them mid mission. Or those that have to go afk often, you cant join a group then expect them to be fine when you go off to do whatever you need to do.

And this isnt about not cutting it with henchmen. But why should the casual player be forced into a weaker team simply because they cant devote as much time as someone else?

I ask again, would people please read the other thread to see if their argument has already been replied to. It makes it a lot easier if the same thing doesnt have to be posted multiple times in multiple threads.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I suppose that the biggest issue is this:

7 heros would allow for players to accomplish goals that cannot currently be attained without having a friend playing at that current time as well. It would in no way hinder those who choose not to take the additional heros. Furthermore 7 heros would arguably be more difficult to run than say 2 players with 3 heros each if that player were to micromanage the skills on each bar. So its not as though its rewarding a lower level of gameplay by any means.

Vinraith · Sep 26, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

STOP putting these threads up.

No. Anet can listen to the single player community of the game or they can ignore us, but we're not going to stop asking for equal treatment with the multiplayer community. Period. We paid for the game, we deserve access to the elite missions, and we deserve a fair chance at completing hard mode content. We were promised soloability in this game from day one. This is not supposed to be an exclusively multiplayer game, if it were many of us would never have bought it.

Archaic · Sep 26, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Ok. For the second time. I will say this. ANet has refused your request. Stop asking. Your just repeating a resolved issue. They've said they won't do it. And that's that.

This also has nothing to do with PvE/vs/PvP so don't use that as a buffer.

I can also say that ANet is probably no longer reading any threads with the words "7 heroes". They've answered you. Now stop.

EDIT: Conflict of information.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I am actually a bit surprised that there is relatively little flaming going on here... good discussion. For further discussion please see this thread as well:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202643

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 26, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaic

Ok. For the second time. I will say this. ANet has refused your request. Stop asking. Your just repeating a resolved issue. They've said they won't do it. And that's that.

This also has nothing to do with PvE/vs/PvP so don't use that as a buffer.

I can also say with authority that ANet is no longer reading any threads with the words "7 heroes". They've answered you. Now stop.

lol @ with authority. Anet has a long track record of listening to its users... more than 75% of its player base want this (see the GWO thread) so why ignore it?

Epinephrine · Sep 26, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Heroes ruined the game. I hated heroes in alpha testing, I hate them now.